<paroneayea> **** LOGGING STARTS NOW! ****
<schendje> when will logging start?  [11:03]
<paroneayea> a minute ago! :)
<paroneayea> okay all, so hey
<paroneayea> 0.3.0, out the door!
<paroneayea> Yow!
<paroneayea> I know it seems like to me like every release is our most
             exciting yet but :)
<paroneayea> I feel like this one was a real accomplishment, and it took a bit
             longer, but it was worth it!  [11:04]
<paroneayea> so everyone feel great for a moment!
<paroneayea> and pat yourselves and each other on the back!
<paroneayea> especially elrond so that this "oh yeah we're going to switch to
             SQL somehow" thing magically came true with his craaaazy work :)
<paroneayea> also a great release blogpost on this one, eh? :)
             http://mediagoblin.org/news/mediagoblin-0.3.0-rise-of-the-robogoblins.html
                                                                        [11:05]
<paroneayea> by the way, as usual, I tend to ramble so don't be afraid to
             interrupt me; that's almost ideal :)
<paroneayea> so the next bit on the agenda is discussing how we feel this
             process went :)
<paroneayea> and what we might want to think about for next release!  [11:06]
<paroneayea> I think we said we expected that a bunch of things would be
             suspended by the SQL transition, and they were, but nonetheless a
             lot of cool things got done.  I mean, audio and mobile layouts,
             and etc... not bad at all :)
<paroneayea> however maybe our bugtracker got a bit neglected, which would
             probably be my fault  [11:07]
<bcs> I feel like I didn't totally understand *how* disruptive it would be.
<bcs> I think part of the reason my ASCII reprocessing bits didn't get in is
      because I started the branch before the switch and finished it after and
      unsurprisingly merging was a big deal.  [11:08]
* paroneayea nods
<bcs> I don't blame anybody for merging being a big deal, it's a good change,
      but I wish I had known to hold off, or hurry it up, one or the other.
      :)
<paroneayea> that's probably true  [11:09]
<tychoish> what's the next release date?
<bcs> This is partly because I came in in the middle of the work for this
      release though.
<paroneayea> and we should probably be better at messaging things like that
             when people are working on those though
<paroneayea> even so, I think things were *less* disruptive than *I* expected,
             because I didn't expect that we'd be able to keep the mongokit
             like API the way we did
<bcs> I think that's my main takeaway from it, yeah.  It would be helpful to
      be mindful of in the future.
<freedeb> tychoish, I think we are hoping to do an every other month release
<paroneayea> yeah  [11:10]
<paroneayea> so I guess next one should be in July
*** raignarok (~quassel@p54897F38.dip.t-dialin.net) has quit: Ping timeout:
    248 seconds
<tychoish> I really want to make the docs better by the next release
<paroneayea> bcs: but yes point taken, and we should be more careful about
             messaging that to contributors
<paroneayea> tychoish: YES!
<freedeb> July 4th?
*** dejongge (~jonke@pD9E0C2F8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit: Ping timeout:
    260 seconds
*** lorochka85 (~lorochka8@c-67-175-17-167.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined
    channel #mediagoblin  [11:11]
<paroneayea> freedeb: haha, that would be fun (though just to us amurricuhns)
<bcs> I do like all the cutesy little "Declare your independence from
      proprietary web services!" things we could do with a July 4 release.
<bcs> US-centric as it is.
<tychoish> my may is pretty busy, but june is comparatively clear for me, so I
           should be able to get it in
<freedeb> tychoish, are you thinking about formalizing docs with soemthing
          like Sphinx
<tychoish> yeah
<paroneayea> bcs: especially if federation is actually well underway
<tychoish> exactly
*** Tekk_ (~user@cpe-071-077-203-175.ec.res.rr.com) has joined channel
    #mediagoblin
<freedeb> or just improving them generally
<freedeb> oh cool  [11:12]
<paroneayea> heya Tekk_ 
<paroneayea> welcome to the meeting :)
<paroneayea> anyway
<paroneayea> yes
<paroneayea> anything else on reflection points?
<freedeb> tychoish, if you ever want/need another pair of eyes on the docs
                                                                        [11:13]
<paroneayea> I'll take that as a no
<Tekk_> paroneayea: hi
<freedeb> let me know
<tychoish> yes. would greatly appreciate.
<freedeb> it can be really difficult to maintain distance in that process
*** Zombie (~Zombie@190.162.24.16) has joined channel #mediagoblin
<paroneayea> okay, so cleanup conversation  [11:14]
<paroneayea> I guess Elrond isn't here, but I just wanted to say, I wonder if
             we should think about shifting around some of the .find()
             mongokit style api to more sqlalchemy specific APIs
<paroneayea> we really don't need that anymore
<paroneayea> and it would be good to be consistent with the system we're using
<paroneayea> even if the old stuff was useful for transitioning
<paroneayea> ... I'm not really anticipating much disagreement on that, so
             that's probably a:  [11:15]
<joar> do we have to be compatible with mongokit still?
<paroneayea> joar: no.
<paroneayea> we aren't supporting it anymore
<jpope> hacker here. ;)
<paroneayea> TODO (cwebber): file bug to switch .find() statements over to
             more sqlalchemy type queries
<paroneayea> heya jpope !
<paroneayea> that also reminds me  [11:16]
<paroneayea> in our really early metings
<joar> although the mongo->sql migrations will still be if we change things in
       our application.
<paroneayea> people used to "claim" bigger tasks as we went through the
             meetings
<bcs> I'm generally in favor of reducing the number of API wrappers we have.
      Ones that provide utility are fine, but merely translating one API to
      another just increases the number of things contributors need to know
      for little gain.
<paroneayea> joar: yeah though I think after next release that will be removed
<paroneayea> and we don't need to keep that in the views, etc
<paroneayea> bcs: yes, 100% agreed  [11:17]
<paroneayea> okay, cool
<paroneayea> anything else on the cleanup front?
<paroneayea> seems like we have a HUUUGE stock of "next goals" things to go
             through :)
<paroneayea> and I anticipate that's going to take a lot of time to talk
             through
<paroneayea> so if nobody minds let's go ahead
<paroneayea> willkg couldn't make the meeting (traveling) but I have an update
             from him on where plugins are at  [11:18]
<paroneayea> http://pastebin.com/u5wpcr9s  [11:19]
<paroneayea> people probably want a minute to read that :)
<paroneayea> but basically sounds like, "the absolute core bits of plugins are
             working, though not really the hooks, but we're hoping to get all
             that rolling along for next release, and a good first plugin will
             be a flatfiles plugin"  [11:20]
<gandaro> Would attachments be a plugin too?  [11:21]
<paroneayea> so, sounds like good news :)
<paroneayea> gandaro: yes, I think we should make attachments a plugin
<paroneayea> as well as the openstreetmap support
<paroneayea> core exif processing should stay in there (exif display maybe
             another matter)
<bcs> What do you see as being the boundary between core functionality and
      things that should go in plugins?  [11:22]
<gandaro> but images, videos and audio are core functions of mediagoblin and
          therefore not plugins?
<paroneayea> bcs: good question, and I think the answer is "we'll have to do a
             lot of discussion"
<paroneayea> gandaro: images, video, and audio are already *almost* plugins,
             the closest thing we have to them!
<paroneayea> they will always be bundled with mediagoblin
<paroneayea> and you can already enable/disable them
<paroneayea> the question is, "should we shift media types also over to the
             plugin infrastructure"  [11:23]
<paroneayea> and I think the answer is, "we can see when we have the plugin
             infrastructure and some written how good an idea that is, but it
             might make sense"
<paroneayea> so media types might be a special type of plugin.  It's not clear
<paroneayea> they already act like a special-case one.
<paroneayea> bcs: to further comment on that
<paroneayea> I think for example elrond was talking about "private sharing"
             and etc  [11:24]
<paroneayea> and we thought for example with that it might be too hard to make
             it a plugin
<paroneayea> because it would require so much retooling everywhere to filter
             queries and etc
<paroneayea> and so maybe it should be core
<paroneayea> to further confuse things
<paroneayea> I anticipate we'll have some "core/official plugins" bundled with
             mediagoblin :)
<paroneayea> and some other ones installable via traditional python packaging
                                                                        [11:25]
<paroneayea> the "installable and loadable via python packaging" and etc is
             partly what willkg is working on, and that and the plugins
             registering themselves already seem to work and have tests
<paroneayea> so I think we'll need to explore as we go and keep talking about
             it as a community
<paroneayea> bcs: is that a good-ish answer?
*** dejongge (~jonke@pD9E0E008.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined channel
    #mediagoblin
*** dejongge1 (~jonke@pD9E0E008.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined channel
    #mediagoblin  [11:26]
<jpope> I'd like to see an openid login. Possible plugin maybe?
*** ey3bl33d| (~ey3bl33d@rrcs-24-103-234-74.nyc.biz.rr.com) has quit: Quit:
    Bye
<paroneayea> jpope: I think we should be working on making authentication
             systems have hooks into them, yes  [11:27]
<paroneayea> and that might be a plugin, as well as browserid support
<paroneayea> captchas also a plugin
<paroneayea> I also anticipate "user upload limits" will be a plugin
<bcs> paroneayea: Yeah, that's reasonable.
<paroneayea> and of course we'll have the "fiscalbovine" for people trying to
             turn mediagoblin into a cash cow ;)  [11:28]
<paroneayea> haha
<paroneayea> bcs: great
<paroneayea> mediagoblin.plugins.fiscalbovine
<paroneayea> oh yeah, just one more thing
<paroneayea> the way you configure plugins is like this:
*** dejongge (~jonke@pD9E0E008.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has quit: Read error:
    Operation timed out
<bcs> It sounds like the ideal right now is to have everything new be a
      plugin, unless it requires too much hacking on the existing core.
<paroneayea> 
<paroneayea> [plugins]
<paroneayea> [[mediagoblin.plugins.fiscalbovine]]
<paroneayea> make_tons_of_money = true
<bcs> And maybe even move some existing core functionality out into plugins.
<paroneayea> bcs: I agree, to the extent that we can keep things from getting
             spagetti'ish  [11:29]
<paroneayea> but we shouldn't rush things moving out of core either if we're
             unsure
<paroneayea> okay, anything more on plugins?  At halfway mark on the meeting
             and we're like 30% through our agenda :)  [11:30]
<paroneayea> federation is a big topic too so I want to get into talking about
             it
<paroneayea> okay, no objections, let's talk about federation
<dejongge1> okay, what will be federated? :)  [11:31]
*** dejongge1 (~jonke@pD9E0E008.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) is now known as dejongge_
                                                                        [11:32]
<paroneayea> dejongge1: roughly: galleries, subscriptions, favoriting
<paroneayea> galleries as in like "flickr pool"
<paroneayea> and maybe more things
<paroneayea> but those are the core goals
<AVRS> it should be possible to subscribe to comments to one's files
<paroneayea> AVRS: you mean like get email notifications?
<AVRS> paroneayea: for example.
<paroneayea> we actually have a branch sitting around that I think needs to be
             merged :)  [11:33]
<paroneayea> with support for that
<paroneayea> but I'm not sure that's federation related
<paroneayea> so that's the thing: my plans are that my *personal* involvements
             in mediagoblin are going to shift into two things
<paroneayea> I'll be wrapping up a few stray merges (if anyone has time who
             has done significant contributions, PLEASE help me out with this)
<paroneayea> but
<paroneayea> I then want to dive straight into federation work.
<paroneayea> we're one year in and it's time to make this happen :)  [11:34]
<paroneayea> so part of my weekend this week is to work on writing out a plan
             for what I need to do on that  [11:35]
<dejongge_> i guess we're not going to do that from scratch? do we have any
            "role models"?
<paroneayea> and I might be gone for next week saturday, but otherwise next
             weekend sunday at least I hope to be 100% in submerged federation
             work mode
<bcs> paroneayea: After I prep my ASCII processing branch for merging, which I
      hope to do this weekend, I'd be happy to help review other merges.
<dejongge_> the federation protocol, that is
<paroneayea> dejongge_: OStatus :)
<dejongge_> ah, thought so :)  [11:36]
<paroneayea>
             http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.network.federated.mediagoblin/209 
<paroneayea> http://gobblin.se/u/avrs/m/pronunciation-of-%22kuneco%22/ :)
<paroneayea> so
<paroneayea> okay
<paroneayea> bcs: awesome, and much appreciated
<paroneayea> so, have we talked enough about mediagoblin where it's really
             just simply dive-in time?
<paroneayea> I'm going to start work but then am happy to loop in people who
             want to start working on pieces after I get the new feed library
             written  [11:37]
*** edu (~eduu@p5DD2E94B.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined channel #mediagoblin
<paroneayea> step 0: adjust some of my planning for federation stuff, step 1:
             working on feed library stuff
<paroneayea> those are my next plans :)
<paroneayea> if there's nothing else maybe we should move onto the next
             meeting topic! :)  [11:38]
<bcs> paroneayea: I have a lot of things in flux right now, so I can't commit
      to huge things, so I'm looking for tasks that are "small" but maybe not
      so easy.
<paroneayea> bcs: great :D
<edu> hello i'm sitting here with elrond
<paroneayea> edu: oh awesome!
<paroneayea> in person? :)
<paroneayea> I thought elrond hid under a magical forest spell obscuring
             himself from true human vision  [11:39]
<paroneayea> :)
<paroneayea> okay, next item bit maybe is favoriting then  [11:40]
* edu looks right at him
<tychoish> how do you know he didn't?
<paroneayea> tychoish: :)
<paroneayea> aaronw isn't here, but he started a favoriting branch as well as
             a "user galleries" branch
<paroneayea> I don't know what state they are in
<paroneayea> I know he stopped when he decided he wanted to wait till we had
             joins support
<freedeb> why is it "take that Pinterest" ?
<paroneayea> I haven't looked at pinterest before so not sure :)  [11:41]
<freedeb> are we going to let people "pin" into their MediaGoblin accounts?
<freedeb> oh
<dejongge_> freedeb: that was my entry
<freedeb> it's basically this, step 1 you stick a little button on your
          browser bookmarks bar
<dejongge_> pinterest let's users pick favorite pictures and add them to their
            wall  [11:42]
<dejongge_> thus the similarity
<freedeb> and step 2, press that button and things go onto a board
<paroneayea> ah :)
<freedeb> step 3 other users can favorite, comment or repin
<paroneayea> yeah I don't know how the UI will look, for now I assume a list
             of favorites will be kind of like a gallery, currently
<paroneayea> like /u/cwebber/favorites/  [11:43]
<freedeb> there are also categories that you can use to sort your pins
<paroneayea> has a list of thumbs of things I like
<freedeb> or search for other people's
<paroneayea> I don't think we're going that complex as pinterest for now yet
             though
<dejongge_> yeah maybe we should keep it simpler than pinterest for now
<freedeb> I don't think we should redo Pinterest
<paroneayea> keeping simple is good; we can always get more complex with time
             as becomes logical
<dejongge_> look at twitter: there is a "favorites" stream, but it still looks
            the same like any other stream
<paroneayea> right  [11:44]
<paroneayea> I think it will be like that.
<freedeb> ok
<paroneayea> so the main thing is that someone needs to re-pick up the work;
             presumably aaronw, so presumably this is just "chris should ping
             aaronw" :)
<paroneayea> TODO (cwebber): ping aaronw ;)
<paroneayea> same with galleries
<paroneayea> we should talk about theming then  [11:45]
* paroneayea summons schendje also :)
* schendje is here  [11:46]
<gandaro> SASS is too heavy maybe.
<paroneayea> I had some conversation with aaronw about this a while ago, but
             can't find it
<edu> so here is real magic at work?
<paroneayea> I think it's pretty simple
<paroneayea> I have a pretty clear plan for it
<paroneayea> aha  [11:47]
<paroneayea> notes!
<BjarniRunar> I think the pinterest use case just sounds like images
              etc. having a standard (optional) URL annotation.  Perhaps you
              have such metadata already?
<BjarniRunar> The rest is just UI
<paroneayea> A theme can be described in a tarball or directory like:  [11:48]
<paroneayea>  - sometheme/templates/
<paroneayea>  - sometheme/static/
<paroneayea> problem is: how to static serve theme stuff?
<freedeb> well, we have tags, not categories
<paroneayea> so we talked about having a tool something like 
<paroneayea> ./bin/gmg install_theme coolthemebro.tar.gz  [11:49]
<paroneayea> that would do
<paroneayea> you have some theme directory, and it pushes to
<paroneayea>  - themes/
<paroneayea>  - themes/templates/theme1/
<paroneayea>  - themes/templates/theme2/
<paroneayea>  - themes/static/theme1/
<paroneayea>  - themes/static/theme2/
<paroneayea> that way you could static serve themes/static/ as you have it set
             up in your mediagoblin.ini and apache/nginx config
<paroneayea> whoa running out of time
<paroneayea> I'll write this up in a bug, but if you want to work on theming
                                                                        [11:50]
<paroneayea> ping me
<paroneayea> TODO (cwebber): put theming plan in a bug
<paroneayea> edu: elrond had thoughts on access restrictions
<paroneayea> not sure if he wants to comment on them
<edu> paroneayea, i'll give him the kbd...  [11:51]
*** lorochka85 (~lorochka8@c-67-175-17-167.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has quit:
    Quit: Leaving.
<edu> (Elrond) Yes, I had some ideaas on permissions. What should we talk
      about?
<paroneayea> edu: (Elrond:) we're running short on time... should we take this
             post-meeting? :)  [11:52]
<paroneayea> and just agree it's something to work on for this release?
<paroneayea> to start on in this cycle
<edu> (Elrond) Yes. When I'm at home I can typ easier.  [11:53]
<paroneayea> okay, we'll do that :)
<paroneayea> okay, a few more things in next goals, let's breeze through them
             if we can.. I'll make comments, if someone wants to talk further,
             we can:
<paroneayea>  - What about traffic? Some of us will host GMG on limited plans.
             <- yes, as said, I think upload limits is a planned plugin
<paroneayea>  - Some kind of coding guidelines? Do we have a philosophy like
             "Keep it Simple, Stupid" <- see hackinghowto, refers to PEP-8
                                                                        [11:54]
<bcs> If you want to limit *traffic*, doesn't that have to happen in
      Apache/nginx?
<paroneayea> bcs: ah yeah, I guess I meant uploads
<bcs> Having an upload limit won't stop someone from uploading 500GB, it'll
      just stop 500GB from being saved in your data store.
<paroneayea> yeah I'm not sure there's much we can do in mediagoblin side
             maybe  [11:55]
<paroneayea> except for maybe saying "you've reached the display limit" and
             refuse to serve the media
<dejongge_> that was me who added it
<dejongge_> so i need to configure it in my webserver, yeah?
<paroneayea> but that could also a plugin, though a maybe semi weird/wonky one
<paroneayea> dejongge_: yes possibly, I'm not sure
<bcs> dejongge_: That would be the most surefire solution.
<dejongge_> okay, i just didn't know about that :)
<joar> bcs: paroneayea: We're talking about a "monthly upload quota" or
       similar, right? Not max post size?  [11:56]
<paroneayea> joar: I think there are multiple things being discussed :)
<bcs> Oh, are we?
<bcs> Yeah, it sounds like it.
<joar> :)
<paroneayea> the "monthly upload quota" is the one I want to see happen
<paroneayea> and want to do in a plugin.
<paroneayea> so we need plugin support, then we can add it :)
<paroneayea>  - Podcasting support?  <- basically, after we add the new feed
             system, we should add enclosures.  So, if interested in this,
             talk to me, though I need to write the new feed system first :)
                                                                        [11:57]
<paroneayea> that's it for features, other things are "things hanging" stuff
<paroneayea> I want to get to two more things
<paroneayea> first jancborchardt has worked to get some university students to
             work on UX stuff, so horray!
<paroneayea> jancborchardt: if you want to say things, go ahead, but I don't
             know if you're here
<bcs> paroneayea: Real quick, on goals, my personal goal would be to get #419
      fixed properly like we discussed.
<BjarniRunar> A monthly upload quota sounds like an odd limitation, don't
              people generally just have a limited amount of space period?
              Why monthly?
<freedeb> more UX!  [11:58]
<paroneayea> bcs: YES.
<paroneayea> bcs: not sure if you still want to do that one, but agreed,
             that's a next-release high priority
<paroneayea> and it should be done.
<bcs> paroneayea: Yes, I'm interested.
<paroneayea> cool
<paroneayea> let's talk more post meeting
<bcs> paroneayea: I'll have to go AFK right after but I should be able to
      catch you another time this weekend.  [11:59]
<joar> BjarniRunar: good point, it was the first thing that came to mind when
       I were to distinguish marketing-oriented upload limit vs tech-oriented
       upload limit
<paroneayea> BjarniRunar: that's how flickr does it, but whatever, it's just
             have a limit and you can update it however
<paroneayea> maybe it's proportional to the number of bitcoins you have... we
             should make it easy to adjust the limit :)
<BjarniRunar> Yeah, it does sound like the kind of thing freemium providers do
              to create artificial scarcity :)
<paroneayea> okay, we have 3 minutes left, I want schendje to have an
             opportunity to talk about the new wireframe for a new
             mediagoblin.org:
             http://schendje.fedorapeople.org/goblin/homepage/wireframe3.png
                                                                        [12:00]
<paroneayea> basically, this would eliminate the tour page for one
<paroneayea> and reorg the current design
<paroneayea> I had a number of criticisms but I think they're satisfied now :)
<freedeb> I love the layout  [12:01]
<paroneayea> schendje: maybe we should make each one of those left icons
             roughly be a color of gavroche or his clothes :)
<freedeb> I have some text tweaks
*** niqqqqqqnaqqqqqq (help@p5084D06A.dip.t-dialin.net) is now known as niqnaq
<schendje> yeah, it'd be great if everyone had a look at that to tell me what
           they think :)
<schendje> freedeb: text tweaks are greatly needed!
<paroneayea> tan slacks, red coat, purple skin, reddish purple scarf ;)
*** wctype_t (~type_t@c-68-51-111-96.hsd1.il.comcast.net) has joined channel
    #mediagoblin
<schendje> the copy on the whole page is made up by me, so it's all nonsense
<joar> freedeb: I believe it's placeholders, see point 4, row 2 in
       "MediaGoblin is..."
<schendje> joar: +1  [12:02]
<paroneayea> freedeb: so yeah, if we move this into a new design we'll def
             give you a chance to tweak text :)
<freedeb> yeah, I'm guessing "free software is funsies" is placeholder text :)
<paroneayea> haha
<schendje> anyhow, with this redesign I tried to accomplish a number of
           things, but I can't really talk about that now because I have to go
           :)
<paroneayea> that's mediagoblin's new tagline
<schendje> I'll tell you what I'll do...
<paroneayea> "free software media for funsies"
<schendje> I'll create a wiki page for this
<paroneayea> schendje: sounds great
<schendje> describing why I made this design in the first place  [12:03]
<schendje> and then post mockups there and others can post feedback
<paroneayea> schendje: yes, I'd love to read that
<paroneayea> cool :)
<freedeb> sweet
<schendje> alright, cool
<paroneayea> and BAM, that's it!  end of meeting!
<paroneayea> and we blew through the agenda mostly! :)
<freedeb> hooray!
<freedeb> if anyone else is going to OSCON
<freedeb> besides paroneayea and myself  [12:04]
<edu> greate :-)
<freedeb> it woud be great to know
<gandaro> *** End of conference *** ;)
<edu> bye, where are getting some food ;-)
<paroneayea> later edu!
<freedeb> we're looking into doing some hacking that week
<paroneayea> **** END MEETING LOGGING! ****
